Angie's List Message Boards : Angies List Forums

Paul, your response would have a bit more credibility if it were not the exact same as your fellow rapidly appearing and disappearing  moderators.  Instead of the canned response how about answering some basic questions to further "counter some misinformation out there"?

 1)  If you supply our name to the contractor with the negative report, how on earth would he or she not be able to match it up with our phone number?

 2)  You now are soliciting reports on doctors.  Do you also send our doctor our name with the negative report? 

3)  What portion of Angies list revenues now come from contractor advertising versus membership dues?  I understand that exact numbers are on beyond the scope of this discussion so a basic breakdown will suffice.

4)  Is it in keeping with Angies list proconsumer model to call members at home to solicit reviews?  I understand that technically this does not violate the do not call list (and there is some way to opt out under member preferences) but is this a truly consumer friendly business practice?

5)  If 16 people have now expressed surpise at your "privacy" policy, what does that tell you about the clarity of the process?

 Thanks, we look forward to your responses. 

Paxi,

Trust me.. I defend people's rights... both sides of the fence.  I used to write "Nasty-grams" to companies who had failed me, or others.  Often got good results.  Nuf said there.

The "intent" of Angies List (least I'm wrong).. is to help people locate service providers.. but more than the yellow pages, they have people (members) responding and reporting and grading.  It's true, people can have disagreements (rather easily, in private).  Or in court.  Angie's list goes to extremes to assure that the positive reports are valid, and not family members or associates, stuffing the ballot box.  Do they verify negative reports as well??

Simply because it's "paid membership driven" doesn't mean it's necessarily valid, any more than a fancy ad, here or elsewhere will necessairly indicate you have a great provider. If you insist that this is "advertising" (with a negative context).. well you've shot yourself in the foot!  It IS HERE to promote GOOD providers.. ah.. that sounds like advertising to me!  Don't tell me you will pick a provider with bad reports!!  Duh!  From the get go, it's here to help YOU, and the providers hook up.  And negative reports will do the opposite.  Angie only makes money, because you have chosen to trust them to some degree, by paying them money.  You can get the same info for free, by asking friends, about local providers.  (The membership here, is more than I would pay by the way, mine was free.  And see my post about slow responses, and my suggestions there.. I'm NOT a paid, pro-Angie, stand-in).

What I totally fail to understand, is that your comments imply that the service buyer, and service seller, don't already know one another.  As if this is a paid, gossip column.. to be secret but only to the paid members.  And a valid credit card, makes your report valid???  Come on!  If you, as a consumer, sign on here, to post negative reports.. then you have injured a provider.  If it's true or not.  If someone accuses me of some wrong doing, WORLD WIDE.. shouldn't I be able to defend myself with a comment, and enough info to know who said what? 

Yes, you have 16 people who have replied, as unhappy.  So tell me how many members are on here?  You can walk 10,000 people through a red room, and a handful will tell you it was purple, or gray.  We've all seen the results of biased Black-listing.  Like Wal-Mart, and their questionable practices.. how many cars are still in their parking lots??

I AGREE 100%.  If you are unhappy, complain.  Or suggest. Or bail.  Just be fair to those who will be hurt by a negative report.. you know who they are, they probably know who you are, already.  And maybe you just dislike them. This becomes a paid membership witch hunt.  Like I said.. I sold a lot of stuff on ebay.  I had (ONLY) one bad feedback.. and yet my side of the truth, was also stated and posted (pre revised no-negative-customer Feedback policy).  He failed to contact me for a month, and then insisted that 3 different money orders had been "lost" in the mail.  Everyone who read my reply, with all of my other positive reports, knew that HIS negative report was bogus.  He just didn't like me, because I expected to be paid, on time.  Ironic too.. he was a repeat customer!

There is an irony here as well.  You say 16 people had their names exposed when a negative report was posted. But there IS strength in numbers.  If a contractor really gets what he deserves, in bad reports.. he will be begging for gas money on the corner.. likely not stalking anyone, for being truthful.  All of your commentary here, may impress people NOT to speak out, and again, YOU the consumer/paid member, have shot yourself in the foot!  No bad reports.. you might as well grab the phone book.

People should NOT live in fear of being honest.  Back up what you post, with emails, and photos.. but report honestly.  I would assume if someone has already hurt you financially, by failure of a contract or service provided, you should have taken THEM to court already, and you should have won.  I'd love to hear of that, in a report here.  If fear is what drives all of these forum replies, then a kitchen remodel won't help you find happiness.  Does Angie have social worker listings??  Sorry.. it's meant to be funny.

Just because this is paid membership.. does not mean it should be outside of our laws.  Libel and slander is serious stuff. 

So to reply to your points 1-3:

1) Don't make this into a private paid gossip column.  Its advertising with feedback because that is EXACTLY what you want and need when you signed on!!!  People don't join, for the forums! LOL Well.. maybe...

2) Involved parties will (or should) already know of each other, and any dispute.  Being "a real person/member with a credit card" does not define them as honest, nor buy you the right to post damaging reports.. without at least the current provider dispute response format.

3) It's great that you care.  You are speaking out.  Now all you have to do is convince everyone else to also speak out, without fear.  You paid to be a member.. support the list with honest positive and negative reports where needed. eBay used to be pretty cool.. till a new CEO came along.. with idiotic ideas.  And people bailed!

Paxi,

I'll be glad to take another opportunity to address your questions.  I would just like to point out from your previous posts  -- that Angie’s List “discards” the opinions of “dissenters” -- that we have now replied to your posts on at least four occasions.  So we are listening and we do care what our members have to say... We have a policy in place, you disagree with it, and we understand your concerns and aren't dismissing them.  We’ve tried to alleviate them, explain why sharing this information is important to the report integrity process and that, should you have a dispute with a service provider, we have a complaint resolution service available to our members. The report process is made explicitly clear to our members and they have a choice to agree to the report process or not before submitting each report. Again, we do listen to our members and appreciate their perspectives, however this is the policy the company has chosen to adopt at this time.  We’ll certainly continue to keep an open mind to the suggestions from our members, as we strive to make the most reliable consumer resource in the United States  -- Angie’s List -- better. Thanks again for writing.

To address your questions in order:

1)  If you supply our name to the contractor with the negative report, how on earth would he or she not be able to match it up with our phone number?   Any service provider who is reported on sees the report, regardless of whether it’s a positive or negative report. Even if the reports were anonymous, the information contained would likely make it easy for any service provider to deduce the origin of the report. Names are included on the report to help validate the information and to give the service provider an opportunity to address a specific situation.  This member accountability is, again, what makes the List a unique and credible source.

 2)  You now are soliciting reports on doctors.  Do you also send our doctor our name with the negative report?  Yes, medical service providers receive the reports, just like any other service provider.

3)  What portion of Angies list revenues now come from contractor advertising versus membership dues?  I understand that exact numbers are on beyond the scope of this discussion so a basic breakdown will suffice. Angie’s List is a privately held company and the company’s financial information is considered proprietary.  However, I will tell you that not just any service provider can advertise. Only providers who have been highly rated by Angie’s List members are allowed to advertise to the membership.

4)  Is it in keeping with Angies list proconsumer model to call members at home to solicit reviews?  I understand that technically this does not violate the do not call list (and there is some way to opt out under member preferences) but is this a truly consumer friendly business practice?  With the hectic lifestyles many people live, it’s easy to forget to post a review of a service you've recently had.  Our research has shown our members appreciate an occasional reminder.  Simply put, the more reports members post, the stronger the List becomes and the better it serves its members.

5)  If 16 people have now expressed surpise at your "privacy" policy, what does that tell you about the clarity of the process?  Angie’s List has over 650,000 members who had to first read and agree to our report process before filing a report.  Naturally, there are going to be some who overlook some of that information by choice, but again, the report policy is readily viewable and members are prompted to read and agree to the process before submitting each and every report.  This has never been kept from members and they can choose to accept that policy or not. 

Again, I hope this clears up any misunderstanding of the Angie's List report process.  Take care,

Paul from Angie's List

I think this whole thread is over reaction.

 

Do you not tell a contractor BEFORE you post to the list if you are dissatisfied? Why would you put in a report that’s bad if you didn’t let them know first?

 

I don’t always do that, but I try to. I attempted to talk to a company about damage to my lawn before I posted my last report. They blew me off. I HOPE they get the report; maybe next time they’ll do a better job for someone else.

 

It seems a little illogical to have expectations of submitting a report that the company will never know about. Even if your name is not on it, the description of the work should clue them in on who it is.

 

I have submitted over 50 reports, several of them not good reports. No one has ever contacted me. The worst that happened was one contractor made a reply to my report that wasn’t truthful, making me look like an idiot customer. I wish I could have replied BACK, but I don’t think that’s possible.

 

If a contractor threatened to sue me for a bad report, I would put that in my report. Not telling other people about things like that negates the whole point of the List. And since I rely on the List, I would hope that other people put in honest reports, as I try to do.

 

When putting in a negative report, try not to be emotional (I sometimes fail at this) – just state the facts. Facts are hard to refute. I won’t normally say “this contractor sucks” but “this contractor failed to do X.”  And don’t ever threaten them with a bad Angie’s report, because then you get the “I’ll sue if you do” stuff. They are people too, and will respond emotionally to perceived attacks.

 

Most will never respond in any way to a bad report. Either they don’t care, or they know they did bad. And regardless of what Angie’s List folks say, no contractor has ever called me afterwards to fix a job that I was unhappy with.

Make that 17 people!   I would not, except under very unusual conditions, post a negative report.  Because of this , there is really no point in posting a positive report.    And carrying this logic one step further, How much value can we place on the ratings?

I just joined and the service may help me find reputable people in which to do business with. I am sure, in the course of doing business, I will not run into 5 star people in every instance. When I don't like what they did or how they did it I don't mind telling everyone about it if asked. As far as personal information that is provided to someone via an internet business referral network such as Angie's list that is part of the business "in my opinion". It is also "my opinion" if you give someone your name, number and address on the internet, you are asking for trouble. 

When I call the service provider and he or she defrauds me, believe me, nothing would make me happier than to have a conversation in front of a judge. Anything less than that, I wouldn't waste my time giving it any consideration, I just move on.

To add a comical note to this whole mess, that service provider would and should be happy he didn't tick off my wife....LoL...

 San Diego, CA... 

You could always post a negative review at http://www.ripoffreport.com/default.asp

Wow...I wish I saw this thread before I joined!! If members are afraid to post a negative review because  of all this....How would I know if the contractor I am hiring thru Angie's list are not one of those bad apple...On the other side of the fence..if you are the contractor who got a negative review, what would you do? Won't you like a chance to explain yourself?..but it's not about this..I thinks it's more on privacy issue..but if you are in ANGIE'S shoes what do you suggest be done, to make both parties right and the members happy.

 

 I will be watching this thread...deciding if I should renew.

Well I can say my company responds to 99.9% of all negative forums of communication.Their has only been 1 that I'm aware of that we didn't respond to. " They ship to dam fast, I wasn't able to cancel my order"... To us this was a good thing. As far as Angies list goes... They do state clear as day that they give the person Name they don't give any other information about you. Yes the person does have all your contact information. Besides, if you heard someone was talking bad about you. You would defend yourself & if you could call that person, you most likely would. Someone had said it before. You need to back up for information and not use pictures and facts to back up your claims.

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www.cpoOutlets.com - "The Worlds Leading Brands! The Internet's finest Outlets!"

Hi newbie101,

You ask a good question. Angie’s List exists so you can find the good, the bad and the mediocre apples by learning about the experiences of others who have hired specific contractors. Armed with that information, you can make an informed decision about who you want to hire.

As has been posted previously, the sharing of a member report with a service provider is part of what makes Angie’s List a credible source for finding reliable service providers.  It allows the service companies the opportunity to confirm or respond to the information, and it helps ensure member accountability as well.  Angie’s List has over 650,000 members and receives hundreds of reports daily on service providers across the country. 

 

In many instances when members assign poor grades, service companies respond positively and take steps to address the issue. In other instances, members giving poor scores move on to our complaint resolution process. 

 

The vast majority of credible business owners want to know if they or their employees are giving poor service, so they can rectify the situation. The policy Angie’s List has in place is the one we feel best works for all parties involved, as it helps us maintain the integrity the reporting process. You should never feel bullied by a service company as a result of a report you submitted.  If you do, please let us know immediately.  You can call our Help Desk at (877) 817-7753.

 

nakikita:

When I posted my first review on Angie's List it was made rather clear that the review would be made available to the company I was reporting about. The company already has my contact information so they don't need Angie's List for that. It is a shame that some companies use bullying tactics to cover up bad reports, but they do. I expect that information about bullying can be posted as well.

This is just a reminder though that anything one writes, or posts, about a company, or individual, is subject to being viewed as libelous and therefore subject to legal proceedings. Of course if the company is proved wrong then one can always counter sue. 

I'm not a member but am thinking about joining to find good people to work on my home and for my business. I can tell you this subject interested me and scared me. Then I started thinking.

What I'm wondering is why paxi is scared the company found out their name? One, shouldn't somebody address complaints with the company first, rather than posting negative comments on the web, wether it be a paid site like angie's List or something a little more public that can be found through google? Shouldn't the company be made aware that you were dissatisfied? It seems like the ethical thing to do to let somebody know that they hurt yuour feelings or didn't perform work up to your expectatuions.

I find it kind of strange that your blasting this company for doing something that seems ethical. Are you saying you should be allowed to say anything you want about people and they shouldn't know? I knew people like that... IN HIGH SCHOOL!

Again, it seems like the right thing to do to let the company know they have been pointed out by somebody that their work is poor. It just seems reasonable. What do you think, Paxi? If I posted a whole bunch of stuff about you on ANYWHERE.COM wouldn't you like to know?

Two, doesn't this company have all your information already? Were you anonomous when you had the work performed on YOUR HOME!?! Seems a little ridiculous. Again, didn't you share your name with them when you had the work performed? Shouldn't you be mad at YOURSELF for giving personal information to this company? I read in aprevious post that all the Angie's LIst did was give out your name attached to your negative experience, review, post or whatever. Shouldn't paxi also be mad that somebody gave the company their address, phone number and name: PAXI DID THIS WHEN THEY WERE HIRED! HA! It seems that paxi gave this company more information on themselves than Angie's list did!

After thinking about it I've realized that paxi wants to say anything about somebody and then retract that statement the minute the person find sout about it. It's like somebody talking about you at a dinner party and then realizing your overhearing everything. It's pretty unethical. Still not sure I should join, though!    

Normal 0

I think Angie’s List does a great job! It is the ones who won’t post negative reports that are messing up the works! I tell a service provider up front that if they screw up the job I will not hesitate to post a negative report, pictures included. At that point, they can decide if THEY want to continue to do business with ME.

 

No, I had not had to post a negative report...but I did post about one of the roofers who used the side of my house as a bathroom. I told the roofing company rep I would have to report it even though he bent over backwards to made the situation better for me (including a discount on the entire job!). Being the honest businessman that he was, he understood why I was posting what had happen and had no problem with it.

 

Isn’t that what Angie’s List is all about, finding the honest ones? If a company uses fear and intimation to control customer dissatisfaction, I would like to know who they are so I can avoid them. If you won’t stand up for yourself why should anyone else?

2nd year as subscriber and a month ago wrote my first negative review. After a week without seeing review posted, wrote AL to see what was up. They wrote back that they would get to it. A month later, still no posting. Went on the message boards to see what the common customer experience was. 

Kudos to AL for allowing this string to be so candid.

The kudos stop there. I am REALLY disturbed to learn that they provide customer information back to contractors. Now, I am not sure I want my feedback posted because I specifically commented on lack of professional conduct of the service provider. Why would Angie's allow you to grade a contractor with an F for professionalism, and then expect that same contractor to be responsible in their conduct when AL hands them your name?

I get the point from the contractor's side about open dialogue, and in 99% of cases that is an expectation. But what about when someone's behavior falls into that 1% where open dialogue might not seem like the smartest approach. What if the guy who was screaming at me over the phone was instead losing control in the living room in front of my wife when she was home alone?

AL is not billed as a site for contractors, it is a member-based site for consumers. The whole concept of "word-of-mouth" promotion is to be able to provide candid feedback in an informal setting to your peers. In fact AL states on their site:

"Angie's List is a word-of-mouth network for consumers. It's a growing collection of homeowners' real-life experiences with local service companies. The people who join Angie's List are like you - looking for a way to find trustworthy companies that perform high-quality work. Rather than digging through the phone book, they check Angie's List to find out what people in their area are saying about the companies they've hired." 

I don't see anything there about being a service for contractors. 

In regards to privacy AL's own FAQ page states:

 "What is Angie's List Privacy Policy?

At Angie's List, we respect your privacy and take the responsibility of protecting the personal information that you share with us very seriously. To earn your trust and confidence in Angie's List, we are disclosing our privacy practices and the uses of the information that we gather.

 

Angie's List privacy policy is based on three basic principles:

1. We will only ask you for personal information if we need it to provide the service you request.
2. We will not release any personal identifying information about you without your consent.
3. We will always give you the option to edit the information that you've provided to us or to have your personal information removed from our records.

 

If you have questions about this Privacy Statement or believe that Angie's List has acted in a manner inconsistent with this statement,contact us here.

Angie's List reserves the right to amend this Privacy Statement at any time without notice, and only the current Privacy Statement may be deemed effective."

Did I read TRUST and CONFIDENCE and WE ARE DISCLOSING OUR PRIVACY PRACTICES? Really? Because the three "disclosed" basic principles don't mention contractors. They also don't say, "We will forward your review with your name on it to the company?" 

So... why don't they actually link to the Privacy Statement in that write-up-- seems like a common practice elsewhere. I searched the site for 10 minutes and couldn't dig up that statement-- I'm sure it is out there, but I couldn't find it. Not that it matters so much because they reserve the right to amend the privacy statement at any time without notice, and that your previously accepted statement (I assume that happens during the initial subscription process) has no precedence over their modifications. The whole "amend without notice" statement also seems a little outdated for the electronic age-- how hard would it be to e-mail changes to customers proactively? 

Second, if they want better disclosure they should explicitly request consent (see their number 2 above) each and every time they want to release your info to the service provider. As far as their statement #3 is concerned, how do they remove our personal info from their records? I couldn't find anything on that in their site either-- it doesn't even make sense to me. Are they going to issue you some secret Swiss bank login ID? How would they auto-renew against your credit card without your name and address for verification? 

The question is whether or not AL's leadership (and I mean executives, not site moderators) will listen to the voices of their customers in either changing their policy, or making it more transparent to the members-- a lot of us seem surprised. They say the terms are clear-- I think I am not alone in disagreeing, certainly not after reading their own statements above.  

On the other hand, perhaps their leadership will not have to listen to the members. Perhaps a handful of state attorney generals might take their own exceptions to the murkiness of AL's handling of consumer data. Time will soon tell-- I hope AL does the right thing.

CustomersFirst:

I don't see anything there about being a service for contractors. 

In regards to privacy AL's own FAQ page states:

 "What is Angie's List Privacy Policy?

At Angie's List, we respect your privacy and take the responsibility of protecting the personal information that you share with us very seriously. To earn your trust and confidence in Angie's List, we are disclosing our privacy practices and the uses of the information that we gather.

 

Angie's List privacy policy is based on three basic principles:

1. We will only ask you for personal information if we need it to provide the service you request.
2. We will not release any personal identifying information about you without your consent.
3. We will always give you the option to edit the information that you've provided to us or to have your personal information removed from our records.

 

If you have questions about this Privacy Statement or believe that Angie's List has acted in a manner inconsistent with this statement,contact us here.

Angie's List reserves the right to amend this Privacy Statement at any time without notice, and only the current Privacy Statement may be deemed effective."

 What you just said is pretty much what every company says. We do not sell, trade, lend, give etc your information to third parties. Meaning... If you sign up with us. You don't need to worry about getting spam. The person or group your posting about isn't a third party being your posting about them. Before you sign up for something read all the fine print. It states it clear as day. If you have a problem with this list.. You are more than welcome to leave it.

9. SUBMISSIONS OF REVIEWS

     In order for You to submit Your own reviews and ratings on the Website and in the Magazine, You acknowledge and agree that:

     (a) all of Your reviews and ratings will either be based upon (i) Your actual first-hand experiences with the Service Providers You are reviewing or (ii) as provided under paragraph 13 below, an individual and that individual's actual first-hand experience with a health care or wellness provider whereby You have the legal authority to disclose such health information and experience of such individual;

     (b) all of Your reviews and ratings of the Service Providers that You are rating will be accurate, truthful and complete in all respects;

     (c) You will not submit more than one (1) review or rating in a single category of Service Providers within any six (6) month period;

     (d) You do not work for, own any interest in or serve on the board of directors of, any of the Service Providers for which You submit reviews and ratings;

     (e) You do not work for, own any interest in or serve on the board of directors of any competitors of the Service Providers for which You submit reviews and ratings;

     (f) You are not in any way related (by blood, adoption or marriage, if the Service Provider is an individual) to any of the Service Providers for which You submit reviews or ratings; and

     (g) Your name and report information will be made available to the Service Providers on which You report.

 By this.. you give your concent when you submit a review...

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www.cpoOutlets.com - "The Worlds Leading Brands! The Internet's finest Outlets!"

xellil:

The worst that happened was one contractor made a reply to my report that wasn’t truthful, making me look like an idiot customer. I wish I could have replied BACK, but I don’t think that’s possible.

 

 Yes, I think that since this is a consumer's site, the consumer should have the final word. The company I complained about responded with lies, half-truths, libelous statements about me and advertising statements that weren't pertinent to the complaint (nice way to get a plug in, huh?). I should have been allowed to address those false statements, but I wasn't.

Because I immediately went through the resolution process (which ended in stalemate because the lousy, lying contractor has no intention of making anything right, only in blackening MY name for daring to complain!), I knew he would see what I wrote. But I am not interested in leaving helpful comments for other consumers because I don't want them sent to the company. In that light, how helpful is this site if others are afraid to be honest? AL has our contact information and can verify things privately, but the consumer should have the choice of being revealed. JMHO.